country. with the help of our time warner cable partners for the next half-hour we will travel to yuma to meet with local lawyers and members of the literary community to help us understand the culture of the region. we begin our special look at you love with a 1947 publicity stop that had a goal of getting a local air base reopened. .. >> the same thing was happening with the proving ground. it was closing down. and the little town of yuma had about 9,000 population, and that was dwindling because people

were, there was no construction going. tourism had not been established yet as an interesting thing for yuma, and the town had not a very bright future. so with a population of 9,000 and dwindling, the junior chamber of commerce said something has to be done. we have to attract attention to our good weather and try to get the air base reactivated. they came up with an endurance flight. there were some men going to a chamber of commerce convention in parker, arizona, up about 80 miles from here, and they were members of the junior chamber of commerce. and one of them was manager of the local radio station, ray smucker. he was always promoting yuma and trying to think of things to do. they, two of those men, four men in the car, two of them knew of an endurance flight that was going on in southern california. two men were trying to saw aloft in -- stay aloft in an airplane for about a thousand hours, and one of them said i know one of

those pilots, we could do that. ray smucker said we could show the whole world that yuma has great flying area every day. every time the flight would be mentioned, they would say yuma, arizona, and get the military interested in reactivating the air base. so that's how the idea was born. well, one of the men in the car was rudy youngward, he was an ex-navy pilot, and he said to ray smucker when that idea came up, oh, ray, that's a good idea. you find an airplane, andhorse and i will fly it -- horace and i will fly it. horace was a manager of a buick agency here, and he didn't feel he could take the time away from the business. so they thought of bob wood who was an ex-navy pilot, and bob was my brother. he became one of the two pilots. they did find an airplane. it was loaned to them, a new airplane was loaned to them by two men that were partners in a

aaa amusement company it was called here in yuma. it was new. they took out the two backseats and the right-hand seat, and they put a cot and sort of a mattress for the off-duty pilot. they took turns, four hours each flying, and the off-duty pilot could then sleep or exercise or do some of the chores involved with the gasoline and oil. so they trained, they practiced and figured out how to handle refueling, how to stay aloft for weeks and weeks and weeks, which they finally did. today first took off in may of 1949, and they had some engine trouble after just two or three days, and so their first attempt failed. and then again in august they tried again, and they stayed up several days, and then they had another major problem. and it was hot, you know? it's really hot here. people said you're not going to try it -- oh, yeah, we'll go up to 2 or 3,000 feet, we'll be where it's cool, you know? so it took a few months to get

parts and repairs done for the airplane and get it ready, but then they took off on the 24th of august, and they never touched the ground until the 10th of october. they went to phoenix a couple of times on an errand. they were supposed to drop a package to somebody in phoenix, and they went over to san diego and checked out the beaches a couple of times, but they stayed locally most of the time except for one night when my brother was the, was taking a nap, and woody was the pilot of the moment, and he kind of dozed off, and they went back into mexico a ways -- at night -- before woody realized was going on. he woke bob up and said where are we? bob said, i don't know, you're the pilot. he said those lights don't look like yuma. there was a friend of our family named george murdoch, whom i later married, owned a brand new buick convertible which he had just bought. it's sitting right here. he bought it for $2800. and he and my brother started

practicing with the car and with an airplane to see how the refueling might work. and it turned out that they took some cream cans from the dairy, two-and-a-half gallon capacity, and wired a bill handle on -- pale handle on to it, and the off duty pilot sitting on the right could reach down when the car and the airplane went down the runway, inactive, abandoned air base whatever direction they wanted to go, and it would go around 65 miles an hour. and the crew from the car would happened up the gasoline, and the off duty pilot would reach down and pick it up. and it may be four cans during a run, and then they would do more and more runs until they had enough to last til about 12 hours later. they had a refueling at six in the morning and one at six in the evening. later, near the end of the flight, they increased and had one in the wee hours of the morning because of the engine was getting kind of tired, and they didn't want too much weight

in the airplane, and they changed that. then as they would make a pass around, make a circle around for a second run, the off duty pilot would pour the gasoline into a big reserve tank that had been installed and hand the empties down on the next run and take up more full. and take up food and bathing equipment and a little bit of a change of clothing. they could go whatever direction they wanted to according to the wind, because as my brother said, it was 500 acres of asphalt abandoned, you know? the crew was all-volunteer. everything was done volunteer. meals were prepared by a local restaurant and delivered to the airport by the police, and everything -- there wasn't a paid hour involved in the whole project, and it was just, the spirit of yuma was involved, you know? when the pilots blinked their lights at night to converse by morse code with their friends on the ground, every little old lady in town thought they were blinking back at her and her

porch light, you know? they were the heroes of the day. they started getting national attention at some point as they neared the breaking the record, and there was a program called morgan babies news of the world on radio, and he got involved at about the time they broke the record. and he actually interviewed the pilots by radio every night on his news of the world. arizona radio carried it all the time, and then the newsreels got involved at some point in time, probably kind of late in the flight. and they had a news service. they received newspaper clippings from 32 different countries. and it did get literally worldwide attention. they landed on the 10th of october, and the well town -- when they broke the record, the whole town, the lights went out, everything turned off, you know? i missed all of that because i was away at school. but then when the actual record was broken, every siren and train whistle and church bell and, you know, car horn and

taxis, everything made noise, you know? it was pretty exciting. big party. bug parade and celebration -- big parade and celebration in the city. they didn't complain about anything. they -- people asked if they were bored, and they said, no, there was enough to do. they somehow didn't complain about anything. and neither did the wives complain, you know? they both had jobs, and yet they were out there for all the refueling. they took it really well. they lost a little bit of weight. they had a pretty good diet planned, but they lost a few pounds. they were thin, they were not overweight, so that was curious, but it did happen. >> what, ultimately, ends up happening to the base? >> it reopened within a little more than a year. in 1951 it reopened and became so active, and now every military, every navy or marine pilot in the country trained right here and commanding officers of both bases gave a

great deal of credit to the publicity that the flight brought to bring, you know, the air base back and the proving grounds reopened again, too, so -- and the city went from 9,000 to, i think last i heard was 110. it's probably more than that now. >> what happened to the plane? >> well, unfortunately, it was sold. somebody -- nobody knows why in the world the city of yuma let that airplane get away. but it did. and then my dear friend jim gillespie who was the co-author of the book with me, "the longest flight," he and another man decided the try and trace it down through the faa. and they went through the records of 19 different owners during all those years, about 50 years. they were in advance of the 50th anniversary of the flight. they found the airplane in minnesota owned by a farmer. he had floats on it for it to land on lakes, you know? and the chamber of commerce got involved and purchased it from the man. he was willing to sell it

because he realized, you know, it's important by that time. so they went there in a u-haul truck, brought it back and spent about two years restoring it back to its original condition, payment job and everything. it's been -- paint job and everything. it's been in a storage room without a good home, and mayor courier said before he was elected, he said if i'm elected, i'm going to find a home for that airplane, and eventually it was arranged to be put here in city hall. and then my husband and i decided to let the city use the car. we found the car like the refueling car. the refueling car was worn out. we figured it had made about 1500 quick stops and starts. it was worn out. but eventually, we found the same car and restored it back to the same color, red leather streets and have loaned it sort of indefinitely to the city. >> what do you think would have happened to the city of yuma if those pilots hadn't gotten in that plane? >> it probably would have just

struggled along. maybe eventually tourism would have become a matter of interest. but certainly nothing like it happened with the military. those pilots were like our astronauts. it was a local big deal, and it made a huge difference in the future of yuma. >> while we were in yuma, arizona, booktv with the help of our local cable partner time warner cable, took a tour of the corner book shop. we talked with the owner, jean chism. she describes the difficulties of keeping a bookstore open in the struggling economy. yuma, arizona, has the nation's highest unemployment rate sitting at about 26%. >> my name is jean chism, i'm the owner of the corner book shop in yuma, arizona. i've always liked to read ever since i was a child, and i like to talk to people about it, and today all ask my opinion. they all ask my opinion.

and -- not all of them, but a lot of them that need a new author. so i read a lot so i can say, well, tony hillerman is like james doss or, you know, like that. so i have to read a lot so i can -- because they'll say, well, who writes like them? well, then i know. >> what are some of the challenges to owning a bookstore? >> well, trying to keep the stock moving, trying to make a buck -- [laughter] but mostly it's trying to keep everything easy to find, you know, and trying to keep up with what's new and what's, you know, what everybody is reading right now. and most he trying -- mostly trying to get my store out there to the public so they'll know i'm here. even though i've been open 18 years, i have people who come in all the time and say i didn't know you were there. this year has been our worst

year. we've done probably half what we did last year in sales. so it's really a struggle. yeah. and i know one of the other used bookstore thes here in -- here in town, they're closing because they couldn't make it. one downtown closed because they couldn't make it. and i'm really not making it, but i, you know, i might move to a smaller place, but i won't close. but that's a struggle right now. >> do you have a plan in place if -- >> no. [laughter] not really. you know? i have lots of loyal customers, so i don't want to just close and leave them out there. you know? but if i move into a smaller place, i might be able to maintain it, you know? i've had a lot of winter visitors come in and say, oh, our local from where we're from, our local book shop had to close. and i've had two or three that

live in san diego, and they come all the way here from san diego because they don't have anything in san diego anymore, they said. i'm sure there are, but they don't know where they're at probably. but i have, you know, the e-readers are so new, and they're so, oh, wow, it's a new gadget, you know? new gadgets are always popular. but i have had a couple of people say that, you know, i can come here and get 'em cheaper than i can buy one online, you know, on the e-reader. and they can't always find the series that they're reading, and, you know? so hopefully, some of the, some of the e-readers will become disenchanted and come back. >> coming up next, a look at one book yuma, a local literacy program sponsored by the yuma sun and yuma public library created to engage the community in dialogue about issues important to the region and the world. booktv learned about this program on our recent visit to

yuma, arizona, with the help of our local partner, time warner cable. >> as you may know, nancy pearl, who was the librarian at the seattle public library, started the concept of what if one city read one book and discussed it in the late '90s, and in the early 2000s the state of arizona actually started a program, the state library started one book arizona. and so we just sort of piggybacked on that idea and started one book yuma. we started in 2003 with bless me ultimate ma, and that was an initiative of the yuma sun. and that next year we went dark, we were just sort of talking about, you know, what is it we really want to do with this program and what kind of community partners could we bring in, and how could we really make this successful. and so the yuma sun newspaper and the yuma county library partnered up, and then we brought onboard the arizona western college library, northern arizona university library and the arizona western

college office of diversity. so we had, um, a lot of input from the community college, we brought some of the high schools in to ask what kinds of programs they were looking for and what they thought their teachers and students would be interested in. so it took us another year to bring all that together. and once we did that, we kicked off again formally in 2004 with the devil's highway by luis urea who was fabulous to work with and very understanding that it was our first year doing a big program with a big author, and he was just wonderful to work with, and it's just been going on ever since. i've been with the yuma sun for about five year, and every year we always get a very positive response. the main point of contact for people here for the program, and i never get complaints. it's always when are you doing this, how are you doing this, what's the book, where can i get the book? this is a great book, i appreciate you doing this. a lot of it comes from the people who read the book and are involved in the program and you get a chance to meet the author.

so this program brings that to people, and they seem to be very excited about it every year. >> it's gone from, you know, a few people to more people to filling a room to are we going to have enough room. and that's just been in the last few years. >> our latest author was garth stein, and he came to yuma for two days and did three events, one at the college, one at the main library. and then we had kind of a special event friday morning. the first since the book narrated by a dog, we really wanted to bring in an animal aspect, so we had the humane society and the guide dog puppy raisers of yuma come to the heritage library. so people got to line up and meet garth, have him sign their book, and then they got to learn a little bit about what the humane society and the puppy raisers do. so it was a little detour from the norm community q&a and then sign the book. i think people really enjoyed it. >> we try to choose books that are topical to our community, that are usually either hot

political topics or something people in our community can relate to; immigration, economy, illegal immigration and right down to our last book, you know, regarding the humane society. so we usually have a lot of response that way. we set up a web site here at ate yuma sun, yumasun.com/onebookyuma, and every year we update it. here's the book, here's the title, this is what we're doing, this is when we're planning on doing it. and as we set the times and locations, we update continuously. so our ads are small, but they have the web site. we even put the web site on our home page. >> the ultimate goal, i would say, is to just really to get as many people as possible to read the same book and then to come together and discuss it. one of the things that we have always talked about is how often have you read a really great book or an article, and then you don't have anybody to talk to about it, and you want to bounce ideas off each other or find out what other people thought about

it. that part of the event is always interesting when people can their questions and inevitably somebody will, oh, you stole my question. i was going to ask that too. so it's great to see people come together and talk about what they interpret from a book and hear what the author, what their intentions actually were. >> have you guys chosen your book for next year? >> no, it's still open. so if you have any goods suggestions, you can send them my way to one book yuma. >> our programming from yuma, arizona, continues now with an interview on the process of government procurement and its effects on taxpayers. booktv sat done with lloyd rain, author of "purchasing wars," during our recent visit to the area. >> government procurement is the broad name that we give to everything that's purchased with public funds. public funds are essentially taxpayer money.

so as soon as taxpayer money becomes involved in any kind of purchase, that entire activity becomes subject to a series of rules and regulations which i certainly won't go deeply into, but enough to make life difficult for many of the people participating in it. so in many cases you have private agencies, for example, agencies that assist the homeless, or agencies that may be making senior centers and so on and so forth, and they apply for grants. as soon as public funds are granted to that agency, everything changes. and everything they purchase be becomes -- becomes governmental or public procurement. and then, of course, there are either regular ones that are 100% financed with taxpayers' money like cities and counties and police departments and

services for the homeless and for the aging and every kind of public service you can think of that are also entirely public funds. and then, because of that, subject to all these governmental procurement regulations. and invariably, they stem from one of two sources; the federal government, which has a number of very stringent rules depending on which department you're dealing with, and state governments. and almost all state governments have very specific statutes dedicated to the definitions of what you may do and may not be permitted to do when you're buying stuff from public funds. the nigp as put out numerous

papers on why it's improper and poor government policy to have what's called preferences. preferences are essentially the process of awarding a contract to a proposer or a bidder who is not the top scorer or the top price that you're looking for. states do that. many states do that, many cities do that. new york has done it saying you must award a contract to a resident new york company in certain areas. the entire state of kentucky says that if you're going to award a contract for the purchase of coal, c-o-a-l, you must award it to a kentucky company. okay. that's really, really bad business.

and i'll give you the very short version on why. if everybody did that, we would stop all commerce in america. it would be as if we had, um, 10,000 little fiefdoms each arguing for its own little position and excluding everybody else. and furthermore, you don't get good competition. your prices go down the toilet as soon as you start having preferences. nevertheless, citizens want preferences, and some places have acceded to those demands. others haven't. state of oregon gives a 5% preference to companies that recycle a certain amount of things. and they have what's called a recycling preference. and so if you're purchasing

office supplies or specifically let's say paper, paper is a biggie. agencies use $5, $10 million worth of paper every year. a local company will get a 5% preference. that means that -- a state, within the state. what that means is if a company from california bid, let's say, $10 million for a certain paper project and an oregon company bid $10 million or even $10.1 million, the oregon company would still win, because you add 5% either to the california bid, or you subtract 5% from the oregon bid. and they come out with the lower number. there was considerable consternation here in the city of yuma over preferences for local bidders not just on one

type of commodity which is far more common, you know? new york wants pop to be bought in all of new york. kentucky wants coal to be bought all in kentucky. and oregon actually has another preference for government printing of all things. all government printings has to be done by an oregon-based company. so yuma had no preferences, and as far as i know, there are no preferences in the arizona statutes until last year when there was almost a year's worth of argument in the city council about having preferences. and i was sorely tempted to stand up in front of them and tell them what a bunch of idiots they really are. but i was actually afraid to do

that, because i was afraid i'd lose my temper, and i would say something really stupid. and besides, at my age i'm getting more -- [laughter] it's easier for we to let things go and see where they come out. after considerable argument for providing what are called local preferences, that is a preference of some kind for all commodities, whatever's being purchased for people within a certain boundary or companies within a certain boundary, they decided to award a preference of 5% for all bidders of commodities only. that's my understanding. for example, not construction and not services. within the city of yuma. now, finally that settled down,

and i think that's where it came to rest. but even that is a big problem. over that way just 60 miles on the other side of the california border we have another fairly large city called el centro, and they compete regularly in our purchases. south down to the border, which is only 5 miles away -- the border with mexico i'm pointing at -- we have a town called san louis. fairly big town. they have people there, and they weren't too happy about that either. wellton. and on and on. so even here in this little area you find that when you start giving preferences to somebody, you open a can of worms which is once it's opened, you can never get it closed again. >> and now from our recent visit to yuma, arizona, with time

warner cable, our local partner, we hear from a local author whose book "postrevolutionary chicano literature" talked about the impact of chi canna women in literature and the unique role they play. >> i believe the chicano writers historically are very interested in the day-to-day lives of real people in real places, so, for example, anna castillo of chicago and with texas, many, many texas women writers are embracing a sense of place that is part of identity. so when i think of other feminist writers i've worked with, let's say some of the great ones, betty friedan or anybody like that, i think sometimes that a criticism that could be made is that there is an immediate sense of wanting to be a global sisterhood or a global we are all against the men. but then we get away from -- but at the same time we have to live a day-to-day life.

for me, chicano writers in particular are about addressing that day-to-day life as a place of strength to deal with the larger picture. i think one of the most important is the sense of empowerment, that what has to be said is significant whether it is a poem about watching your grandmother make tortillas or that tamales which is very typical, i think, to stories and fables about guadalupe. it's about empowerment, but it's also about, i think, a deep look inside and a connection with both the sense of self creating an identity that is yours, but also a familiarity and a sense of connection with the family. and for many chicanas, with the past, distant past. 19th century, let's say. oddly enough, i think instead of looking inside ourselves as a meditative, philosophical thing, i think frequently in america we're just simply selfish. it's not really about learning

about ourselves to become a better part of humanity or to become more connected with that which raised us, it's about i want, i need. so i do think those voices of introspection for the purpose of looking outward and benefiting something beyond ourselves, i think those are getting lost. two of the texts that i write about were only published in the 1990s in their full form. and so i think from the 1990s on yard, chicano writers have been looking back at those and recognizing a pattern in their own work that they can now see, gosh, i wonder how did people make it when everything was so against them, when we had no power, we had no right to vote? they're looking back at that, and they're seeing that their grandmothers and their grandfathers and their great grandmothers had a community to build out of it, and it's part of what made it possible for the new chicana writers to exist. i grew up in san antonio which

is a very different place for your average mexican-american female in this country. [laughter] and i'll be frank, until i moved to the university of iowa to do my graduate studies, i didn't realize there was this many white people in the whole world. because san antonio's very much a mexican-american stronghold. i thought of myself as mexican. my spanglish was simply what was spoken. and when i moved up there, i was going to work on shakespeare, french poets, and the culture shock was so great that i really kind of retreated into myself and got introduced to the borderlands. i recognized in myself trying to negotiate too lives. i was or very articulate, very good in english, a good scholar, good enough to go to iowa, but there was also very strange looks at me. not unkind, but simply who are you, where did you come from? and reading that book single handledly lead me onto this path

and trying to swim through that book -- still to this day -- is enlightening and, thankfully, for me i got over the fright. it became definitely something empowering. in the necessity we have of labeling, i think it's easy to say, oh, the chicana and chicano movement, that coincided with the black power movement, so, yeah, it was all about the '60s. as a nation, we're incredibly poor with our history, so i want people to realize when they explore in any type of depth the things that they're passionate about, they're going to find connections that they may not expect, and i want them to be open to the joy of finding that. and also the knowledge and intospection that that should bring to you. you really need to think about where we came from and why we're here. >> for more information on booktv's recent visit to yuma, arizona, and the many other cities visited by our local content vehicles, go to c-span.org/localcontent.

>> the intelligentsia is driven by this certainty that religion and reason are in different boxes, that science and religion are in different boxes, and the two actually are at war with each other. they are inimical to each other. someone who is rational is not religious, someone who is religious is not rational. science is the antidote to religion. science is rational, it is the antidote to religious irrationality. now, this itself is the ultimate irrational idea. because the belief that religion is inimical to science and reason in the west completely untrue. religion underpinned science and reason. >> author, columnist and winner of the orwell prize for journalism, melanie phillips, takes your calls, e-mails, facebook comments and tweets "in depth." three hours live sunday at noon eastern on booktv on c-span2.

>> mr. moss, what happened in minneapolis in april of 1999? >> you know, i start the book with that meeting because it's so informative of the industry's attitude and strategies. 1999 the obesity epidemic was just beginning to emerge and raise concern not only among consumer activists and nutritionists, but among people inside the processed food industry. they gathered together, um, for a very rare meeting. of ceos of some of the top manufacturers in north america who got together at the old minneapolis headquarters, the old pillsbury headquarters in minneapolis to talk about none other than this emerging crisis really for the industry. and up in front of them got none other than one of tear own, his name -- their own, his name was michael mudd, he was vice president of kraft.

he was armed with 114 slides and laid at the feet of these ceos and presidents of these large food companies responsibility for the, not only the obesity crisis, but he cited the rising cases of diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease. he even linked their foods with several cancers. and he pleaded with them to collectively start doing something on behalf of consumers. because michael mudd knew that the competition inside the food industry -- and, you know, it's funny, because you walk into the grocery store, and it seems so tranquil. soft music playing, doing everything they can to encourage you to shop and buy. but behind the scenes the food industry is intensely competitive. and he understood that the only way to sort of move the industry, budge the healthier profile of their products would be to get them collectively to do something.

from his vantage point, the meeting was an utter failure. the ceos reacted defensively. they said, look, we're already offering people choses. we have low-fat this, low-sugar fat that. if they really want that, they can buy those alternative products. we are beholden both to consumers and our own shareholders. they left the meeting, basically, going back to what they'd been doing and continue to do which is having a deep reliance on salt, sugar and fat. >> so what are processed foods? is how do you define them? >> you know, processed foods, i'm mostly looking at what people like to call ultra processed foods because, look, even a baby carrot can be defined as a processed food because it doesn't grow that way in the ground. it's a regular carrot that gets shaved into the baby form. but typically, i mean, more my sense processed foods are those -- for my sense processed foods are those that take natural ingredients and highly

refine them, highly process them. and the formulas, too, are of the products that i'm writing about in the book are incredibly dependent on salt, sugar or fat. it's not a mystery. you can pick up the label, and you can see thanks to some government regulation that we have and labeling requirements, you can see the amounts of salt, sugar or fat in these items. and it's rather extraordinary. across the board of the grocery store, just how reliant the industry is on these three ingredients not just for flavor, but for convenience because they can act as preservatives and also for low cost, because they can help the industry avoid using more costly ingredients like fresh herbs and spices. >> are you interested in being a part of booktv's online book club? this month we're discussing "salt, sugar fat," how the food giants hooked us. michael moss discussed his book and answered questions. you can watch the entire program online at booktv.org.

as you read the book this month, post your thoughts on twitter with the hash tag btv book club and write on our facebook page, facebook.com/booktv. and then on may 28th at 9 p.m. eastern, join our live, moderated discussion on both social media sites. have an idea for next month? send your suggestions on which books you think we should include in our online book club via twitter or facebook, or you can e-mail us at booktv@cspan.org. >> patricia is the author of "reclaiming fair use: how to put balance back in copyright." university of chicago press. professor, what is fair use? >> guest: fair use is the right to use other people's copyrighted material without permission or payment under some circumstances. >> host: where did that term come from? >> guest: well, that's part of the law, and it's been part of common law since 1841 and part of the copyright act since 1976.

>> host: what's an example of fair use today? >> guest: well, fair use is done by students everywhere when they quote a scholar or an encyclopedia or wiki media or my other source in their paper. they get to use those words as a result of fair use. journalists do it every day when they say the think tank report said this, quote. they're able to use that material is all copyrighted, but they're able to use it. >> host: because they source it? >> guest: no. actually, sourcing doesn't have anything to do with fair use, although it is always a polite thing to do, to give credit to people. but credit, there's many examples of fair use where you wouldn't even -- you, in fact, never need to give credit in order to be within the copyright law. >> host: such as? >> guest: you would make people upset if you didn't frequently. but any kind of challenge that an artist makes, for instance, uses material from lots of different places and doesn't

necessarily cite it. documenttarians use copyrighted material inevitably all the way through their work, because the world that we live in is largely copyrighted at this point due to the fact that since 1976 copyright is default. i imagine did you make any notes for this interview? >> host: sure. >> guest: they're copyrighted for 70 years after your death. >> host: why? >> guest: because it's copyrighter's default now. and copyright terms have been extended dramatically. so fair use so important these days precisely because our little world is actually copyrighted. there's, there's -- there are very few exceptions. something has to be very old, for instance, produced before 1923, or it has to be produced by an employee of the federal government on government time and exclusively without any additions from other people

which often happen. so, and only the federal government, not state or local governments, many of whose -- many states and localities copyright their own documents. so understanding when you can use people's material that's copyrighted in order to quote from it, to refer to it, to produce something new to access it for a different purpose be, that would all be suddenly more important to this generation than ever before. not only because of all of our wonderful digital tools, but also because, actually, all that stuff belongs to somebody else now. >> host: youtube, how has youtube affected fair use? >> guest: youtube hasn't particularly affected fair use. fair use is exactly the same as it has been in terms of people's practice. what you see with youtube,

with photoshop, with any of the digital tools, garage band, any of the tools we now have is that it's easier technically than ever before to copy. so a couple of consequences of that. number one, it's, it's more anxiety-producing for copyright holders that people can cop their work than ever -- copy their work than ever before. there's a huge and fundamental difference between somebody copying your work so that they don't have to pay you and they can just use it for free. that would be stealing. under common understanding and under the law. and somebody accessing your work so that they can make something new or repurpose it for a completely different purpose be, be -- purpose than your market purpose, to give you an example. i want to hear the latest beyonce song, and i don't want to pay for it, so i'll just download it. that is illegal, and it's

stealing. but i want to explore the latest beyonce video. a french choreographer said, actually, you used my choreography moves in your video, and you didn't credit me. and, well, the choreographer was making a copyright charge. she actually was, she was like many people more concerned about credit. but the choreographer said, look, you used my move, and you didn't credit them. well, is that true? do you believe that? you might want to take the section of beyonce's video, a section that demonstrates a move, and compare that to recorded choreography of the french choreographer and say i, on my web site i'm examining this, and i'm putting up both of these examples. now, beyonce may be singing this that music video, but you don't have to pay beyonce. you are repurposing a section of

her work. you are using the appropriate amount, and you are doing something different with it than just playing her music because you want everybody to hear her music, and you really love it. >> host: in your view, professor, is that french choreographer correct in calling out beyonce for using her choreography? >> guest: from a legal perspective, she may or may not have had a grounds. i'm not -- i am very, very proud to have written this book with my colleague, peter, who also teaches at our school and is a legal scholar and who is among, between the two of us, the person who can speak authoritatively on the law. what i can speak about is impact in using the law and what the law constantly permits in the application of fair use as communities of practice have defined their use. so was the french choreographer

right? it really doesn't matter for my example, because my example is that's the right to use obama say's work. the french choreographer may be in france, and we don't really have to worry about the legal issues. the fact that she made the point be creates a moment when i want to say something about beyonce, and i don't want to have to figure out who her agent is to be able to do this. but i have the a right to make that comment. in fact, the law is designed to encourage me, encourage me any way it can to make new culture. so the law says in part, well, we're going to provide you a perk if you do make new culture. you can have monopoly right over it for a while. those notes you made on this interview with me? you can have them for a while. in fact, you can have them for a long while. you can have them for 70 years after you're dead. but i, be those notes were available to me elsewhere and i

wanted to say look at the questions that i'm being asked by a television interviewer versus the kinds of questions that i was asked in an e-mail by a print reporter, i want to compare the two, i would have a right to take your copyrighted work in order to make that comparison. because i would be making a comment that had nothing to do with the purpose of your original work. >> host: for whom did you write this book? >> guest: i wrote that book for you. i wrote that book for you and other people who just want in their ordinary day to make new culture in whatever they're doing. you might be, you might be an amateur musician. you might be wanting to upload a youtube video and have some -- or your children might be wanting to upload a youtube video, and you might say, well, is that going to get them in trouble? might they have a black mark against them if they do this? there are people creating pta fliers who want to know can i

just pull an image off the internet or not if i'm going to make this? is that going to get the school in trouble in any way? as well as scholars, teachers, librarians. we've actually, the book chronicles work we've done with ten communities of practice including journalists, documenttarians -- film makers, that is -- k-12 teachers, mostly middle schoolteachers, college professors and people who make open course wear for higher education. we've worked with them and other groups to help them clarify how they can use fair use in order to get their work done. and as i say, this is a relatively new problem in the world since before 1976, actually, it was like a no-brainer to access other people's culture, because a lot of it wasn't copyrighted. >> host: what happened in 1976? >> guest: the law was changed, and as a result of a great

enthusiasm by large corporate copyright holders to extend their rights over their existing or archives, the government responded by extending copyright and by extending the length of the copyright term, by extending the amount of rights associated with it and by making copyright default. in other words, kind of copyrighting the world. >> host: if in this book, professor, you had written about mickey mouse and how he's drawn and put an image in here, would that have been fair use? >> guest: what i would have had to ask myself is two questions. thank you, because this is what we discuss in the book. i would have had to say why am i referring to mickey mouse? i can say anything i want about mickey mouse without actually getting near fair use, but were i to quote mickey mouse, when he talked like steam boat willie,

he talked like this. thirty years later, he sounded like that. i might not only want to put a picture in, i might want to put e-clips into the -- video clip into the e-version of this book. then i would have to say what do i want to do different than just enjoying the movie that he's in? oh, that's right, i'm making a comment about his historical significance or the aesthetic treatment of mice or whatever i'm going to say about them. or the role that disney play inside copyright as a copyright stakeholder or the way that disney had, the company, has historically taken work that is in the public domain such as folklore and ten turned it into a -- and then turned it into a corporate work. quoting specific work of disney. i might want to show snow white along with a wood cut from the grimm brothers.

and i would have the right to make all of those references insofar as, oh, i'm doing something different with it than just enjoying the folk tale or just enjoying the movie. i am not taking away anybody's enjoyment of the movie. i'm not -- nobody is going to read my book and say, well, i'll never need to watch snow white and the seven dwarves, because i got it. because i'm making a reference that is appropriate to the needs that i have. and i've included just that much. so those are the two questions i ask. is it transformative? that's the magic word that the lawyers use. transformative means i'm using it for some other purpose than the market purpose that it's on the market for. and the second question is am i using enough of it for my need there? they're pretty easy questions to ask, and they sont be -- these should really be something that kindergarten teachers can do. kindergarten teachers are in a

situation every day where their children when they scrawl on pieces of paper are created copyrighted work. and they sometimes want to put that work up. do they have to ask their, these children's parents for copyright permission? no, they don't, because they have, they might -- if they're going to put that work up on the web site for the school, they have an argument that they are recontextualizing these children's work in contrast with each other, and they're doing these in order to demonstrate something about the capacities of 5-year-olds. >> host: is fair use stealing intellectual property though in a sense? >> guest: the whole book explains why not only is it not stealing, but fair use is a right that everyone has. it is enthusiastically encouraged not only by the law,

but by judges and conservative lawyers everywhere in the united states. the last 15 years of jurisprudence around the fair use law has shown that judges very actively support fair users. now, the reason why today do -- why they do is because judges do not want to be in the position of endorsing private censorship. if copyright, which is now long and strong, a long time and extends to many things in the world is copyrighted, if today's copyright holders had to have a death grip on their properties that nobody can make new work off of it millions they say so, then they become private censors. and who enabled that? oh, that would be the federal government. and the federal government is prohibited from doing that by

the first amendment. so if you're not going to use your fair use rights, if judges did not agree that fair use was a vital and important part of the law, then judges would be saying, actually, copyright is unconstitutional. so, no, you're not stealing. you are using the right you have to make new work. you'd be stealing if you took that beyonce song and downloaded it all legally so you can just enjoy it when there is a market for it. if you're doing something new with it and you are creating culture with it, the law is telling you, please, go ahead. when you start, when you start substituting for the original market purpose, that's stealing. >> host: are we to the point of international fair use standards? >> guest: it's very -- that's a great question. every copyright policy around

the world has some exemptions written into it that make sure that private censorship does not happen. those exemptions are all different. the u.s. fair use law is the one that is most flexible and most adaptable to new circumstances. and in a way, the most abstract. it basically says if you're doing something few and different with this material, you are only taking as much as the is appropriate for that new use, and make new culture, please. and in practice what happens in many commercial businesses including pushing an international film production and distribution, is that if it passes muster in the u.s. law, it should be fine just about everywhere. one of the reasons that's true is that other nations do not have statutory damages which are great big, fat fines if you make a mistake that go far beyond the cost of all the licenses. so in other places there just

isn't much of a financial motivation to really go after people unless they were actually stealing. but what's also interesting is that places that have not had fair use are increasingly looking at fair use as something they want to adopt, and the united kingdom is probably the latest and most vivid example because they believe that they are stopping innovation unless they loosen up their access to existing culture. and david cameron, the british prime minister, has been on record saying exactly this, that british innovation would be at stake. and people may be going to the u.s. to innovate because today don't have fair use in britain -- because they don't have fair use in britain, and he would really like to have that protection. the canadians just rewrote their copyright law.

they have a long, long list of exemptions of specific things that you can do rather than saying make up your own mind, but it should be transformative. they just rewrote fair dealing so it was less of a long list and more of an invitation to make the decision by yourself. again, for the same reason, because they believe it's associated with innovation and creativity. >> host: what do you teach here at american university? >> guest: i'm privileged to teach in our communications program. i teach courses to film makers on documentary film which, by the way, extensively uses fair use, and i teach our mfa and our ph.d. students about the structure of higher education, and i supervise research on communications effects. >> host: and we've been talking with professor patricia aufderheide about her co-authored book, "reclaiming fair use: how to put balance

back in copyright," published by the university of chicago press. booktv is on location at american university. >> visit booktv.org to watch any of the programs you see here online. type the author or title in the search bar on the upper left side of the page and click search. you can also share anything you see on booktv.org easily by clicking share on the upper left side of the page and selecting the format. booktv streams live online for 48 hours every weekend with top nonfiction books and authors. booktv.org. >> here's a look at some books that are being published this week. mika brzezinski presents her thoughts on beastie in america if identity obsessed: america's food addiction and my own." walter cronkite iv and maurice

isserman present a collection of letters that walter cronkite sent to his wife during world war ii in "cronkite's war: his world war ii letters home." in "big -- being poppy," kramer profiles george w. bush. george h.w. bush. andre lankov in "the real north korea: life and politics in the failed stalinist utopia." in "keep it pithy," bill o'reilly. margaret coyle, chief washington correspondent for the national law journal examines the supreme court under chief justice john roberts now in its seventh year in "the roberts court." look for these titles in bookstores this coming week and

watch for the authors in the near future on booktv. booktv.org. >> you're watching c-span2, with politics and public affairs. weekdays featuring live coverage of the u.s. senate. on weeknights watch key public policy events and every weekend the latest in nonfiction authors and books on booktv. you can see past programs and get our schedules at our web site, and you can join in the conversation on social media sites. >> now on booktv, we sat down with eric deggans to discuss his book, "race baiter: how the media wields dangerous words to divide a nation." this is about half an hour. >> host: joining us now from ouh seert here next to the c-span bs is eric deggans, and here is hid book, "race baiter: how the media wields dangerous words to

divide a nation." mr. deggans, what's a race baiter? [laughter] >> guest: good question. i'm actually trying to redefineg the word, race baiter, because what i've found is you try toou have discussions aboute controversial issues centered on racial prejudice, other than trying to shut down a discussion by calling you the race baiter. e conversation, trying to get some power by accusing someone else of being insensitive. my whole point is as a nation becoming much more diverse, becoming -- we're seeing a greater impact from people of color, we're going to have these conversations more and more often and we should feel free to talk about our differences in a way that's open and nonjudgmental and aimed at making progress on these issues instead of trying to pretend they don't exist. >> host: where did the name come from? >> guest: from my good friend, bill